The Art of Interviewing People or How to Identify Senior Talent

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This session explores the art of interviewing beyond traditional assessments, focusing on cultivating soft skills, mentorship, and recognizing senior talent. Covering strategies to build rapport, assess soft skills effectively, and shift the interview dynamic towards mentorship, the talk emphasizes the importance of cultivating a supportive environment for candidates. Additionally, it delves into identifying seniority traits beyond technical expertise, promoting diversity, and continuous improvement through feedback. Participants will gain insights to transform interviews into meaningful engagements that find talent and potential future leaders.

This talk has been presented at TechLead Conference 2024, check out the latest edition of this Tech Conference.

FAQ

The speaker is Kersimir Tsonev from Bulgaria.

Kersimir Tsonev has roughly 20 years of experience in the web field.

The primary goal of an interview is to find the intersection between the candidate's knowledge and the company's requirements.

You should check the CV of the person before the interview, ideally both a few days before and again 15 minutes before the interview.

Understanding the context helps define what kind of person the company needs, whether it’s filling a gap in the team, needing more people management, or requiring more technical skills.

Traditional assessments have shifted from focusing solely on technical skills to also emphasizing soft skills like communication, leadership, mentoring, and teaching.

Senior people prefer to solve problems and think like business owners; they have a strong sense of ownership and often set up their own processes.

Senior candidates often ask why a change is needed and consider the broader impact of their actions, rather than just explaining how they would implement the change.

Senior candidates typically ask about company culture, financial health, future product development, and overall big-picture questions.

Emotional intelligence is important because it reflects how candidates handle failure, learn from mistakes, and communicate lessons to others.

Krasimir Tsonev
Krasimir Tsonev
22 min
15 Jun, 2024

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Video Summary and Transcription
The Talk discusses the process of interviewing and identifying senior talent. It emphasizes the importance of assessing soft skills and qualities like communication, leadership, mentoring, and teaching abilities. Evaluating problem-solving skills involves observing the candidate's reaction and their focus on the actual problem, rather than the specific answer. The Talk also highlights the significance of ownership, autonomy, emotional intelligence, and the ability to handle failure. Finally, it mentions the importance of concluding the interview by asking questions to assess the candidate's fit and career stage.

1. Introduction to Interviewing

Short description:

I'll be talking about interviewing people or how to identify senior talent. The interview is basically the process where we have to find the intersection between the person's knowledge and our requirements. It's important to understand the context and what kind of person the company needs. Checking the CV before the interview and having a list of topics and questions are also recommended.

Hey everyone, thank you for coming. I'll be talking about interviewing people or how to identify senior talent. My name is Kersimir Tsonev. I'm from Bulgaria. I have roughly 20 years of experience in the web field. I wrote some books. Actually the first two doesn't make sense anymore, so don't buy them. The other two, they're kind of a good fit now.

So what's the goal? We have on one side, we have no one. And on the other side, we have our future colleague. This person comes to us at the interview with some luggage. They have some knowledge. They know stuff. On the other side, we have our requirements. We have some idea what kind of person we need. And the interview is basically the process where we have to find the intersection between the two. It's almost never a full match. The luggage is never really matching all the requirements that we have. So we have to start the interview with this in mind that the person probably doesn't really know everything that we want to see.

Every time I start with some sort of preparation, I know that most of this stuff are obvious, but still when I'm doing interviews and when someone interviews me, I'm still seeing that this stuff are kind of missing. And the very first thing is the context to find out if you're doing this for your company or for some other company, you have to really understand the context, what kind of person the company needs. I know that this sounds really obvious. It's probably the first thing that you have to do. But sometimes people don't really pay attention to all the details. So is this going to be just filling a gap in the team? Do we need more of people management? Do we need more of technical skills? So it's good to define the context. I strongly recommend that you check the CV of the person before the interview. Again, this seems like an obvious thing, but what I'm doing is very often I'm reading the CV just before the interview, like 15 minutes before that. Of course, I check the resume upfront a couple of days before when I'm kind of scanning the candidates, but I'm double checking everything before the interview because when you're reading a lot of stuff for a lot of people, you can't really remember everything. And just a quick refresh 15 minutes before the chat with the person, it's kind of making everything a bit more smooth and you kind of give a good impression to the other side. And at the end, I always have a list of topics, questions.

2. Identifying Senior Talent

Short description:

It's important to have a plan for interviews. Traditional assessment has changed in the past few years, with more focus on soft skills. Companies now value communication, leadership, mentoring, and teaching abilities. Identifying senior people requires a pragmatic approach, defining desired characteristics and asking questions to reveal them. Senior people prefer aggressive objectives over step-by-step solutions.

I'm not always going to this kind of a plan, but it's a good idea to have this list because sometimes you kind of run out of questions, sometimes you really need to cover some areas. So it's possible that you miss something. And yeah, it's good to have a plan.

So how do traditional assessment looks like so far? To be honest, it's kind of changed the last five to maybe six, seven years. Back in the days when I started doing interviews with people, everything was about the technical skills. So for junior people, they should know something. Then when you go up into the medium and senior roles, you expect that the person knows more and more and more stuff. But this was always kind of a focus on the technical skills, on the stack of the company, whether the person is able to fix things quickly, to develop things quickly.

Nowadays, everything is changed a lot because most of the companies, if not all of them, care about the soft skills of the person. Especially nowadays, when we have AI everywhere and you could pretty much solve most of the technical problems just by doing a short research about the problem. So the companies and I personally focus a bit more on the communication skills, on the leadership skills, on mentoring, on teaching, just in general communication with the people. And when you go higher and higher, you expect more from the candidates, from this angle. So the things changed. Now, it's not enough that you know how to write Python, for example, you have to communicate better, basically, and you have to develop these soft skills if you want to kind of pass the bar to the next level.

So how to identify senior people? It's easy. I really like this meme. It's kind of stuck in my mind every time when someone said, oh, it's just you just do the interview. You just talk with the person and you find out. You draw two circles and then you draw the O. The thing is that it's not easy. I mean, from the outside, it doesn't look that hard. And in in such moments, in such situations, I basically rely on kind of more pragmatic approach on the process. And the process for me is to identify up front all the characteristics that I want to see in this person and then prepare questions which are revealing this characteristics. They are identifying if the person is if the person has these characteristics or not. And the rest of the presentation is basically me sharing with you my my favorite topics, my favorite characteristics of the senior people on this slide. I kind of lay out most of the things that we're going to talk about. And, yeah, the first thing is that the senior people, they really like aggressive objectives. They don't like how to's, meaning that they like to receive the problem. They don't like to receive the solution. And to kind of answer whether the person is is thinking this way.

3. Evaluating Problem-Solving Skills

Short description:

I give candidates a solution and observe their reaction. Junior and mid-level candidates focus on the process, while senior candidates care about the actual problem and ask why. Senior people are problem solvers and think like business owners. The specific answer is not important.

I'm just positioning the candidates into a situation where I'm serving to them a solution, I'm giving them a solution and I'm expecting to see how they react on this. And of course, you could come up with something that matches your context. But this is one of my questions. It's you have a micro service that is dealing with emails. And I ask from you that you go there and then you change something from the template. You change the footer, for example. So this is basically me giving the solution. Hey, you have to change the template and more junior people, more mid-level people. What they do is usually they talk about the process of doing this thing.

So they say, OK, I'll check out the repo. I'll make sure that I run the service locally. I make sure that I understand the code. I do the change. I maybe write a unit test. Then maybe I ask a colleague to check the change. Maybe I ask for a code review and so on and so on. So they basically start doing the job while more senior people and the people which are more higher in the chain, they they care about the actual problem. So, of course, they'll probably say these things. They'll probably say all the things about checking out the codes and making sure that everything works after that and so on. But they'll ask, OK, why we're doing this change. Are you sure that you want to touch this micro service because it's used by a lot of things? This template is important because it's probably part of every single endpoint. So why we need to change that? So when you ask such a question, make sure that you focus not on the process, not on how things happen, but they ask why and do we need to actually change this this microservice? Maybe it's something else.

So this is really typical for the senior people. They they like to solve problems. They are problem solvers. The senior people, they think is a business owners. And this is one of the moments when I'm asking the question and I don't really care about the answer. There is no wrong and right answer really here. And I'm usually asking about what exactly you were doing at your last company or current company. And the answer, again, is not really important.

4. Assessing Ownership and Problem Solving

Short description:

Pay attention to how candidates talk about their projects. Junior and mid-level candidates tend to focus on the delegated tasks, while senior candidates take ownership and talk about the impact and achievements. Senior people care about the company and get excited about new products. When faced with a problem, junior candidates communicate the problem, while senior candidates come up with a solution and consider the bigger picture.

They'll start talking about their projects and their responsibilities and so on. But what you should pay attention to is how they talk about that. If they say we did this, we achieved this goal, we went so far, we got a new funding because we did this project and so on. So you pay attention to the phrasing, to the to the mood when when the person is answering such questions, because the more junior and mid people, they they're still not there and they usually feel that they are just a little cog from the whole machine. So they probably talk about the part of the process which is delegated to them, while the senior people, they are more like business owners. And this is a bit connected to how the person is feeling when they are part of this company, if they are happy or not, of course. But in general, we all want that people at the management roles, they actually care about the company and they recognize the company as their own. So they are able to get excited about the new products and so on.

The third thing is that most of the senior people, they have a strong sense of ownership. So this means... And you see that all these things are actually a bit connected to each other. So by giving them these questions, I'm kind of trying to see all these angles, all these characteristics which I care about and the ownership is actually one of them. So here I'm actually asking them to answer on the question how they react if they see that something is not OK. So only you notice that the team can deliver on time. So what do you do? The more junior people, they go with communicating the problem, which is fine. It's correct. This is probably the first thing that you have to do. Communicating the problem is you being the messenger, basically. But it's kind of just giving the problem to someone else. It's basically saying, hey, we can't finish this service because we have this dependency and what we're supposed to do. Should we move the deadline? And then you are kind of passing the problem to someone else. Meaning that you're communicating, which is OK. It's correct. But if you're more senior, you usually before communicating the problem, you kind of come up with a solution. You think about, again, the problem solving. You see the problem from different angles. You see the whole picture. You need to see the whole picture. You have this need to see the whole picture. And then you communicate the problem.

5. Ownership, Autonomy, and Emotional Intelligence

Short description:

Senior candidates take ownership and solve problems by considering trade-offs and finding solutions. They have a sense of ownership and see the bigger picture. Experienced candidates talk about the entire project, not just their specific tasks. Emotional intelligence is difficult to assess in interviews.

And then at the same time, you kind of come up with a solution. Hey, can you make a trade off? Can we not deliver this feature because this one is more important? Can we cut some of the deliverables at this point and then do this next quarter and so on and so on? So it's always really nice to see that the person is not just the communicator. It's actually the problem, the problem solver. And this is connected with the ownership. They feel that this is their own project, their own future. And they they want to finish it.

The fourth thing is about the people doing stuff without supervision. I think this is the natural progression of every software developer, basically, especially if you're if you spend a lot of time on one place. You start seeing the you start seeing the the whole code base. You start seeing the whole project. You start seeing how the company actually works. You see the processes. You see how the teams communicate between each other. And at some point you just learn everything and you are able to do everything and you are able to do this without supervision. So this is kind of natural progression. But at the same time, it's it's a bit different with with more senior and people that actually lead. And here the question is usually, hey, can you walk me through your recent recent project? And then then you see the people with less experience, they talk about a specific part of the project. Usually I was the designer. I did the design. Then I slide the design to HTML and synthesis and I pass it to the to the front end developer or I pass it to the back end guys and and and so on. So this is just me doing my job really well. But I'm just a part of the process. While if you're leading, if you have this sense of of ownership, you actually need to see the whole picture. So so you you see, OK, this is just the design. Then what happens with the design after that? Then when the front end is done, how is communicating with the back end? Do we have to set up a meeting with the backing guys to come up with a contract between the front end and the APIs? And then and then you see how how this person is actually talking about the processes that happen in the company as a whole, not just about his job, his part of the whole process. But but the whole the whole thing basically.

The 15 is about emotional intelligence. I know that this is really difficult to to nail in an interview, which probably takes 30 minutes to our it. It's it's almost not really possible to actually get to know someone and and figure out whether they are emotional intelligence. And here are the the this aspect aspect could be seen from many angles.

6. Dealing with Failure and Setting Up Processes

Short description:

Candidates' ability to handle failures and learn from them is crucial. They should demonstrate how they solve problems, communicate lessons learned, and take ownership. Senior candidates with a strong sense of ownership and experience in leading teams are usually adept at setting up their own processes. They understand the different parts of the process and design it accordingly.

I'm usually interested about the failure, how the person is actually dealing with the failure. And this is one example which happened to me. I did send five hundred thousand emails to people with the wrong copy. I basically put the link, which was not the link that people are not able to click. And the company is losing a lot of money because this was the campaign and it was important and so on. So the question is how these people, how the candidate is actually able to solve some sort of problems with this one situation. Of course, there will be apology. There will be I'm going there and fixing the problem. But if you want to take the extra mile, you have to make sure that you learn your lessons because the failure, the mistakes are basically the source of the really good lessons. And if they are able to give an example when they failed with something and you ask them, hey, so what happens with you after that? And if they talk about the lessons, if they talk about how they make sure that this doesn't happen, how they kind of communicate these lessons to other people, then this is a good match with. In terms of this direction, setting up their own processes, it's a part of the ownership of the strong sense of ownership of feeling as a business owner. People are usually the senior people. They are usually up for that because they see how the whole picture works. And what I'm asking usually is if they're part of the startup and what kind of things they actually start doing. And this is the moment when they start about designing their own processes, basically. And it's really interesting to see how people, which have less experience are actually struggling with this because they just don't have enough knowledge about how everything should work. And this is usually an easy question for someone with more experience and with more kind of leadership roles because they know the different parts of the process. So they usually design the process according to their needs. And this is a really valuable characteristic.

7. Concluding the Interview and Asking Questions

Short description:

The interview concludes with giving candidates a chance to ask questions. Junior and mid-level candidates focus on logistics and processes, while senior candidates inquire about culture, the big picture, and the company's financial stability. This helps to understand the candidate's current career stage and assess their fit. It's important to have a sense of difficulty in finding the right candidate, as it ensures that AI doesn't replace human judgment. Ultimately, the judgment is based on feeling and having conversations to gauge the candidate's position in their career.

And the last one I want to finish with just giving them a chance to ask questions. I think this is really, really important. And just and it's it's actually one of my favorite parts of the interview because this speaks about where the candidate is at the moment.

Usually the junior people and the mid-level people, they talk about logistics and processes. Hey, how how you do your split planning, how you do estimates of your tickets. So this is logistics. Of course, there are some good practices, bad practices.

But the more senior people, the people at the management level, they usually ask about culture. They ask about big picture. They ask about how is the company financially, how many products you want to develop in the future. How many teams you have. So they they kind of want to see everything from from above and and make sure that that this is the place where they want to be working.

And it's yeah, it's it really speaks about where the person is at this moment of their career because during the years you actually change. And yeah, I I want to finish by saying that it's hard. And to be honest, I'm happy that it's hard because if it was easy, everything would be taken by AI and it would be really, really, I don't know, easy to find someone. While the majority of the of the characteristics of the senior people, you actually have to feel them. The judgment that you do at the end is based on on your feeling most of the times. As you could see, I prepared some questions which kind of reveal some of the aspects. But most of the stuff are just you chatting with this person and trying to see where she or he is at their career. Thank you. This is my last slide. If you have anything to say to me, if you feel to contact it in this URL and yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

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What things in the React universe are you excited about right now?React version 18 is coming out soon. The experimental version is out there, and it's fun to play with. I'm just really thrilled that it's no longer a concurrent mode but concurrent features that you can opt into. Cool things like that will enable React server components in the future. 
But the biggest thing I'm excited about is Remix. That's huge. It eliminates a lot of problems that are solved well other tools, but when I'm using Remix, I don't have those problems, so I don't need those clusters.
You already said that teaching is an integral part of the learning process, and you stand your word since you're also a full-time educator. What inspired you to enter this field?I have been a teacher for as long as I can remember. I grew up in a church where you talk in front of your peers from a very young age, and my mom was an elementary school teacher, so teaching has just always been a part of me. 
I really just enjoy sharing what I'm learning with others. As far as teaching technical topics, I gave my first workshop when I was still a student at Brigham Young University. With my fellow, we taught how to use AngularJS, and I got Firebase to sponsor pizza so they would show up, and that was pretty fun.
Then I started teaching on the side at egghead.io right after I'd graduated. That was when I first got a paycheck for teaching. And I realized that teaching could be quite lucrative and support my family and me as a full-time endeavor. So I did it — I quit my job. I'm a very risk-averse person, so I'd done teaching as a side hustle for four years just to verify that I could make this work.
When TestingJavaScript was released, and I got that paycheck, I realized that I didn't need my PayPal salary anymore. I could just focus my daytime on teaching and give my evenings back to my family, which was a nice trait.
Apart from that, how has teaching impacted your career? Earlier I mentioned that pretty much all of my jobs came because I was perceived as an expert. After the first job, where I was an intern and then converted into full-time, I never applied to another. I worked for four different companies, and they wouldn't have recruited me if they didn't know who I was and what I was doing. My content is how they knew who I was — I just made it easy for them to find me. Teaching made that impact. It made my career. 
We talked about React and Remix. Are there any other open-source projects that you'd recommend keeping an eye on or contributing to?I have some myself. React Testing Library is probably the biggest one that people are familiar with. And if React isn't your jam, then other framework versions of the testing library. 
React Query is also really popular. If you're using Remix, you don't need it, but if you're not, I strongly advise using React Query cause it's a stellar, fantastic library, and Tanner Linsley, the creator, is a stellar and fantastic person. 
What pieces of your work are you most proud of? Probably the biggest thing I've ever done is EpicReact.Dev. It has helped tens of thousands of people get really good at React, improve their careers and make the world a better place with the skills that they develop. My whole mission is to make the world a better place through quality software, and I feel like I've done that best with Epic React. 
There are things that I've built at other companies that are still in use, and I'm proud of those cause they've stood the test of time, at least these last few years. But of everything, I think Epic React has made the biggest impact.
Effective Communication for Engineers
TechLead Conference 2023TechLead Conference 2023
36 min
Effective Communication for Engineers
Top ContentPremium
Today's Talk covers the four building blocks of communication: people, message, context, and effective listening. It emphasizes the importance of considering the perspective of others and tailoring messages to the recipient. The Talk discusses different types and channels of communication, and the need to align them with the intended message. It also highlights the significance of soft skills in communication and provides techniques for effective communication and assessing soft skills in tech interviews. Cross-cultural communication and the impact of bluntness are explored as well.
A Career As Software Engineer
React Advanced 2022React Advanced 2022
24 min
A Career As Software Engineer
Code will be imperfect and perishable, so testing and debugging are crucial. Building relationships and being generous with code reviews are important for teams. Code ownership should belong to the team, not individuals. Prioritizing functionality over consistency can lead to more efficient development. Growing into a tech lead role requires building relationships and coaching skills.

Workshops on related topic

From Engineer to Leader: A Workshop for First-Time Tech Leaders
TechLead Conference 2024TechLead Conference 2024
144 min
From Engineer to Leader: A Workshop for First-Time Tech Leaders
Workshop
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Andrew Murphy
Transitioning from an individual contributor role to a leadership position, especially in the fast-paced tech industry, is hugely challenging. Most new leaders don't receive any training at all in the first 10 years of their new responsibilities.Our comprehensive workshop is designed to assist new and emerging tech leaders in understanding their new roles and gaining the skills to make them confident, happy and effective leaders.
Managers Are From Mars, Devs Are From Venus
TechLead Conference 2024TechLead Conference 2024
111 min
Managers Are From Mars, Devs Are From Venus
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Mo Khazali
A Developer’s Guide to Communicating, Convincing, and Collaborating Effectively With Stakeholders
It’s a tale as old as time - collaboration between developers and business stakeholders has long been a challenge, with a lack of clear communication often leaving both sides frustrated. The best developers can deeply understand their business counterparts’ needs, effectively communicate technical strategy without losing the non-technical crowd, and convince the business to make the right decisions. Working at a consultancy, I’ve both failed and succeeded in architecting and “selling” technical visions, learning many lessons along the way.Whether you work at a product company, are a consultant/freelancer, or want to venture beyond just being a developer, the ability to convince and clearly communicate with stakeholders can set you apart in the tech industry. This becomes even more important with the rise of GenAI and the increasingly competitive developer market, as problem-solving and effective communication are key to positioning yourself.In this workshop, I’ll share real-world examples, both good and bad, and guide you through putting the theory into practice through dojos.
Designing A Sustainable Freelance Career
React Advanced 2021React Advanced 2021
145 min
Designing A Sustainable Freelance Career
Workshop
Alexander Weekes
Rodrigo Donini
2 authors
Would you like to pursue your passions and have more control over your career? Would you like schedule and location flexibility and project variety? Would you like the stability of working full-time and getting paid consistently? Thousands of companies have embraced remote work and realize that they have access to a global talent pool. This is advantageous for anyone who has considered or is currently considering freelance work.>> Submit your interest on becoming a freelance engineer with Toptal and get a call with Talent Acquisition specialist <<

Freelancing is no longer an unstable career choice.

This workshop will help you design a sustainable and profitable full-time (or part-time) freelancing career. We will give you tools, tips, best practices, and help you avoid common pitfalls.
Table of contents

Module 1: Dispelling common myths about freelancing
Module 2: What does freelancing look like in 2021 and beyond
Module 3: Freelancing choices and what to look for (and what to avoid)
Module 4: Benefits of freelancing from a freelancer + case study
BREAK
Module 6: How to get started freelancing (experience, resume, preparation)
Module 7: Common paths to full-time freelancing
Module 8: Essentials: setting your rate and getting work
Module 9: Next steps: networking with peers, upskilling, changing the world
Module 10: Freelancer AMA
How To Design A Sustainable Freelance/Contracting Career + Speedcoding Challenge
React Summit 2022React Summit 2022
75 min
How To Design A Sustainable Freelance/Contracting Career + Speedcoding Challenge
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Ready to kickstart your freelance career or just getting started on your freelance journey? You’re in the right spot. Learn from the world’s largest fully distributed workforce in the world.
The independent talent movement is the future of work. If you’re considering leaving full-time employment for a career as a freelancer, now is the time to find your successful space in the independent talent workforce. More people are working freelance today than ever before, with the freelance marketplace now contributing $1.2 trillion to the US economy. Some of the most in-demand roles for freelancers right now are senior developers with professional experience in React, Python, Blockchain, QA, and Node.js.
This workshop will help you design a sustainable and profitable full-time (or part-time) freelancing/contracting career. We will give you tools, tips, best practices, and help you avoid common pitfalls.
At the end of the workshop there will be a Q&A session with a Freelance Developer who can answer your questions and provide insights and tips into their own success.
During the Workshop break, we will be running a speed-coding challenge! At the end of the workshop, we will award a prize for the winner and display the leaderboard.
We will have you login to our portal and complete the challenge as fast as you can to earn points. Points are assigned based on difficulty and the speed at which you solve the tasks. In case you complete all tasks, you get extra points for the remaining time. You’ll see your score, ranking, and the leaderboard once you complete the challenge.
We will be giving away three Amazon Gift Cards ($200, $100, $75) for the top three winners.
Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire: A Manager's Guide to Helping New Developers Thrive
TechLead Conference 2024TechLead Conference 2024
35 min
Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire: A Manager's Guide to Helping New Developers Thrive
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Andrew Coleburn
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Onboarding to a new project can be difficult, no matter your background and experience. But it can be especially challenging for new developers straight out of school or a coding bootcamp. Drawing on personal experience as a bootcamp grad and JavaScript consultant, this talk will discuss tips and strategies for managers to help the new developers on their teams get their bearings in an unfamiliar codebase, so they can make more of an impact, faster!
Landing Your Next Developer Job
React Summit Remote Edition 2021React Summit Remote Edition 2021
121 min
Landing Your Next Developer Job
Workshop
Sadek Drobi
Nouha Chhih
Francois Bohyn
3 authors
Renaud Bressant (Head of Product), Nathanael Lamellière (Head of Customer Success and Solution Engineer), Nouha Chhih (Developer Experience Manager) will be looking at the different developer jobs that you can accounter when looking for your next developer role. We'll be explaining the specifics of each role, to help you identify which one could be your next move. We'll also be sharing tips to help you navigate the recruitment process, based on the different roles we interviewed for as recruiters, but also as candidates. This will be more of an Ask Us Anything session, so don't hesitate to share your thoughts and questions during the session.